Curse

Wildkat · Oct 05, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

If I were one of the a-net staff who came out with the Nightfall skills this 6 v 6 would be like a slap in the face.A lot of the skills seem to counter fotm s nicely.Angelic protection>bloodspike(maybe) and other spikes to a point.More dazed options.More cond removal or immunity to conditions(Dervish).Will people be forced to play the new classes while ignoring the old ones?Guarantee there would have been a lot of the new class types in 8v8 along with support classes which there will be no room for in 6v6.

supaet · Oct 05, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brewski101

Okay, let me start out by saying I would be considered an HA Noob by most of you. (Rank 2) I've been playing GW for about 10 months now. I'm a relatively casual player, putting in a couple hours a few nights a week.

I rarely HA, and the biggest reason is that it's not worth the effort. Rank is hard to get when you only play casually, and low rank keeps you from getting on decent teams. People trying to learn how to play take nearly constant abuse both when trying to find a group, and in game. If you try to rank farm your way up so that you don't have to take the crap, you get mocked even more for playing farming builds.

So when it comes down to it, HA is no fun for a Noob. The only way to get to the "fun" part is to slog through hours and hours of abuse and annoyance. Given my limited play time, it's never been worth it. Most of my guild/alliance is in the same boat.

All that said, I have to say I think the switch is a good idea. Not because I think 6v6 is better than 8v8, or that it's going to kill certain builds or make others better. It's good because it shakes up an area of the game that become elitist and stale. For a brief while, it makes it so that it's possible for Noobs to get in on the action while everyone is trying to adjust to the changes.

Will there be new gimmick builds that dominate the area? Sure. ANet will continue nerfing skills and builds to adjust to it.
Will this kill certain build types? Absolutely. Good teams should be able to adapt their builds, or come up with new ones.
Will this make the "Elite" players angry? Sure, in a lot of cases it will. Anyone who's on top has a knee jerk reaction against change. Anything that changes might knock you off the top. The good ones will learn to adapt, and will stay on top, or get back on top in no time.
Will this make it easier for Noobs to HA? Yes. Good. From ANet's perspective, how can this be bad? GW is built on the idea of always getting new players. With no monthly fees, the company will die if it caters only to it's existing players.
Will some experienced players leave? Yes. Some. Most will complain for a while and then adapt. 1-2 years from now when ANet changes the format again, most of those people will complain about that change too.

Over and over again, ANet has proven they are dedicated to keeping the game fresh and new. When areas of the game get annoying, boring, or dominated by one group of people, they step in to update and keep the game going. This move is consistent with everything they've said and done in the past, and I assume they'll continue to do it in the future.

I know it's annoying when it's "your" area of the game that gets changed, but look at it as part of the wider picture. If GW becomes a game dominated by a set group of people, they'll go out of business, and GW will go away forever. If you honestly think that's preferable to changes like this, then you need to find a different game.

Just my .02. Let the flaming begin.

FLAME, hehe, you're the typical example that why newbie do not participate in hoh. Your excuses are full of crap. couple hours is more than enough. You tell me that your guidie/alliance on the same boat, and you say you cant get in group? why don't you play with them? not enough? "guild group lf xxx" you form groups in no time. Cant win? cant gain fame? Oh no, you don't play to gain fame, you lose nothing when you lose. If you affraid of losing, you will never win. Abusive? how so? a Rank9+ group that slaughter your noob group? They taught you guys a lesson. They got slaughtered alot more times than your group before becoming this good. Got mock for fame farming? no, you don't play iway to farm fame, you play iway to learn hoh. You do not play for fame, you play for fun. If you find no fun losing, i'm sorry, competitive gaming isnt for you. But I'm sure you will lose alot more and get abuse alot more in your life. END FLAME.

6v6 will not change a thing for you. You wont get in high rank groups, you still lose to good groups, if you call that abusive, then you are a loser.

utinajero · Oct 05, 2006, 10:07 PM // 22:07

this is going to kick butt!!

utinajero · Oct 05, 2006, 10:07 PM // 22:07

this is going to kick butt!!

Midnight De Blood · Oct 05, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

I am an adament pvp player and i like this change looking into the future a month this will end up being really fun and figuring i hate all forms of iway (vim too). As for the gimmick builds they will always be here but with the 6v6 people have to think out of the box, for the first month I know we will see the gimmicks but those go out on NFs release vims and iway for example. and second the elitism so what the r9+ they will be just a noob with the new maps and the new builds so thats fine too i dont mind if my r5 almost 6 was a kind of waste this will prove more of a challenge which i really have been waiting for. As far as the people that hate this, why? cant you adjust or are you upset at being a noob again, or is it the fact that you think that HA should only be for the elitist. Plus most of the spike (gimmick) builds listed, so far, all are going to be weaker with 6v6 even a 6 monk stall can easily be dealt with and with NF easier plus those that want a 8v8 pvp field NF has 2 more pvp one of which is for heros the other is not listed so there may be a new 8v8 and HA needed to be modded (helping the nerf of some of the 8v8 builds) it is dull and boring with the same old builds used over and over and with the gimmick builds with 6v6 they will have multiple weaknesses so still no problem

Inner Salbat · Oct 05, 2006, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildkat

If I were one of the a-net staff who came out with the Nightfall skills this 6 v 6 would be like a slap in the face.A lot of the skills seem to counter fotm s nicely.Angelic protection>bloodspike(maybe) and other spikes to a point.More dazed options.More cond removal or immunity to conditions(Dervish).Will people be forced to play the new classes while ignoring the old ones?Guarantee there would have been a lot of the new class types in 8v8 along with support classes which there will be no room for in 6v6.

Equally there maybe balance issuses, with Dervish/Paragon with 8v8 that are perticually unbalanced due to HA, and the way people use that would ruin the game, and thus the better course of action is to 6v6 it.

I just can't wait for the whines about, why doesn't my gimmik work in GvG type threads, I swear I'll be roflmao.

Xeeron · Oct 05, 2006, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

I just can't wait for the whines about, why doesn't my gimmik work in GvG type threads, I swear I'll be roflmao.

Don't tell, will there be 15 pages of "whine" "you're a whiner" "noob" posts as well? Rofl @ this thread.

- "contributes to the spamfest" Xeeron

Spader · Oct 05, 2006, 11:10 PM // 23:10

me to

i have two view points on this
patches happen weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

or
patches happen cry moar

after i saw this thead going a bit i went and looked at the possible new nightfall skills that are for the normal 6 proffesions
of them there's going to be one monk skill that reduces spell cost of healing spells between 2 to 7 i'm assuming it tops at 10 with 16 in healling teaming that with devine boon would casue massive amounts of cheap high heals.

the other skill that looked rather intresting to me was Mind burn making elements able to be able to energy deneil simular to energy surge but very spamible.

i'm not saying that these 2 elites would make blood spike and double smite from running over 6v6 i'm just saying there might be some other less happy builds that are going to come out of the wood works that people will have to coap with.

Inner Salbat · Oct 05, 2006, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeeron

Don't tell, will there be 15 pages of "whine" "you're a whiner" "noob" posts as well? Rofl @ this thread.

- "contributes to the spamfest" Xeeron

Yeah I like reading whines, when there complaining about something that hurts them, and benifts me

Shmanka · Oct 05, 2006, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by supaet

I'm 5. but I have different opions for those 5 groups,
1. if you cant find a group now, you cant find a group in 6v6. simple it's your problem.

To be dead honest there are quite better posts, but continuing on. If you cannot find a group for 8v8 odds are better that you can for 6v6. Lower numbers easier competition. Like I said for every 24 players there are now 4 teams compared to 3.

Quote:

2. This group have no problem since all they care about is fame, if you can get 5000 fame in 8v8, you hav eno problem getting your share in 6v6

Yet that is where the higher consensus of complaints are.

Quote:

3. Same as 2, if you GROUP can pwn people in hoh now, you have no problem pwning people in 6v6 regardless of builds, new gimmick builds will come up

See this is where I agree and don't agree. How far can "gimmick" builds go with 16 less skills? You need actual skill now for bloodspike, ranger spike, Iway is going to be less effective, Thumpers are less effective, smiters are less effective.. it seems this change was planned for a long period of time. I truly don't think there will be anything "gimmick" about this new format

Quote:

4. You will not like it after 2-3 monthes. They you will ask for bringing back 8v8 or 5v5 7v7 or 1v1

Exaggeration is not within reason, the first statement you make is a pure prediction of the future. If you have this gift why are you sitting down on your chair, typing on this message board?... Proper grammar ftw

Quote:

5. UNITE and get ANET to give us both options!

Both options? I think the idea is blatant, the community isn't numerous enough to support such an idea.

Quote:

As for 6v6 makes things less confusing, the hoh is made to be complicated, that's why you need vent/ts, that's why newbies cannot run balance, they only can run iway. All in all, 8v8 in gw is as balance as it can be. How you want to play it is your choice. I'm totally for 6v6. But I'm 100% against taking away 8v8 hoh. I will still play the game though, COME ON you ELITE pvers!! I'll pwn you with vimway. Then you will all go back to your own pve world. no offense :-)

Alright I'm going to try and read this 8 times.... ok done. I still don't know what your talking about. I suggest putting this text into Microsoft sam while your wasted and have a laugh. Your ideas are completely unorganized and hardly legible. So I'm going to address the issues you mention in the English I have learnt over the past 20 years.

First off, the "newb" issue has once again been brought up. I'm sure we can just leave this topic dead. It's a communal "despute" in every game "they ruin this!" "They messed me up!" point being people complain, need to learn, enjoy playing different parts of the game; lets leave it at that.

First off I'm sure during development HoH was never MEANT to be complicated. It got complicated, (if it did) through experimentation and counteracting other known "builds"

Heck while were at this I'll give a small definition

Build- A specific organized way for "X" players to organize their skills+attributes to win and defeat others in specific methods that is unique to other opposing "X" players

Yes some "builds" infact need voice communication compared to typing due to the convinience of voice communication is much simpler then typing+co-ordinating within the game.

I'm also quite sure that when they do this update which should be relatively soon that in some way the "Ghostly Hero" gets an update on him as well. Im sure the 6v6 environment will change how people play, interact, and think of new "builds" will be completely different from here on in. Not only because of the 6v6 but the maps, and the limitations on powerful combinations now at hand. You my friend have no logical reasoning to defend your #5 category on this debate you are definitely the red headed step child abuser of builds.

supaet · Oct 06, 2006, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

To be dead honest there are quite better posts, but continuing on. If you cannot find a group for 8v8 odds are better that you can for 6v6. Lower numbers easier competition. Like I said for every 24 players there are now 4 teams compared to 3.

Yet that is where the higher consensus of complaints are.

See this is where I agree and don't agree. How far can "gimmick" builds go with 16 less skills? You need actual skill now for bloodspike, ranger spike, Iway is going to be less effective, Thumpers are less effective, smiters are less effective.. it seems this change was planned for a long period of time. I truly don't think there will be anything "gimmick" about this new format

Exaggeration is not within reason, the first statement you make is a pure prediction of the future. If you have this gift why are you sitting down on your chair, typing on this message board?... Proper grammar ftw

Both options? I think the idea is blatant, the community isn't numerous enough to support such an idea.

Alright I'm going to try and read this 8 times.... ok done. I still don't know what your talking about. I suggest putting this text into Microsoft sam while your wasted and have a laugh. Your ideas are completely unorganized and hardly legible. So I'm going to address the issues you mention in the English I have learnt over the past 20 years.

First off, the "newb" issue has once again been brought up. I'm sure we can just leave this topic dead. It's a communal "despute" in every game "they ruin this!" "They messed me up!" point being people complain, need to learn, enjoy playing different parts of the game; lets leave it at that.

First off I'm sure during development HoH was never MEANT to be complicated. It got complicated, (if it did) through experimentation and counteracting other known "builds"

Heck while were at this I'll give a small definition

Build- A specific organized way for "X" players to organize their skills+attributes to win and defeat others in specific methods that is unique to other opposing "X" players

Yes some "builds" infact need voice communication compared to typing due to the convinience of voice communication is much simpler then typing+co-ordinating within the game.

I'm also quite sure that when they do this update which should be relatively soon that in some way the "Ghostly Hero" gets an update on him as well. Im sure the 6v6 environment will change how people play, interact, and think of new "builds" will be completely different from here on in. Not only because of the 6v6 but the maps, and the limitations on powerful combinations now at hand. You my friend have no logical reasoning to defend your #5 category on this debate you are definitely the red headed step child abuser of builds.

Please excuse my poor command of the English language. It's no where near my native language. I hope that doesnt mean I'm not welcomed here.

1. Read your statement again, does not make any sense.
If you cannot find a group for 8v8 (8 slots per team) odds are better that you can for 6v6 (6 slots per team). What? logical?
Lower numbers easier competition? what? lower competition for smaller amount of "resouces"?
Like I said for every 24 players there are now 4 teams compared to 3.
That's still 24 slots.

The reason people cannot find team is not team size, it's rank discrimination. 6v6 will not change that.

2. that's not my complain. People who are 2 should read my statement.

3. Again it does not make sense. Gimmick build happens because there are 16 extra skills? I didnt mean existing gimmick builds will work in 6v6. Also if you look at it, the "counter-gimmick" build has 16 less extra skill as well, so gimmic build will still exist.

4. Since 6v6 does not fix any of the problems noted above, how is it different than the 8v8 hoh? it is safe to expect the 6v6 will share the same fate as the 8v8

5. There is nothing else I can do other than posting my opinion.

I tell you what, I love 6v6. I will play it a lot. I'm fully support it because it will be no less fun than the old 8v8.

But I will miss the 8v8 hoh. It was a training ground for gvg. It is the only 8v8 pvp for me and those who is not in a pvp guild. I miss playing/vs iway, bspike, w/e fotm. Not because it's good fame or for abusing newbie. Because it's fun.

defrule · Oct 06, 2006, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by McUH

No. This is the one which still remains possible for 2 reasons. It has backline incorporated into spikers so they will not become so vulnerable as other spikes. Also blood-spike is no really spike but pressure aimed to wear down your monks, I seldom see blood spike to kill anyone as long as you have half decent infuser and he has energy (and health) for infusing.

I'm pretty sure rainbow spike is still going to be possible. Ranger spike, definitely.

Inner Salbat · Oct 06, 2006, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by supaet

But I will miss the 8v8 hoh. It was a training ground for gvg. It is the only 8v8 pvp for me and those who is not in a pvp guild. I miss playing/vs iway, bspike, w/e fotm. Not because it's good fame or for abusing newbie. Because it's fun.

It maybe fun to you, but it isn't anywhere near fun for those that hate gimmiks, for those that play fare with some sort of balance to there build to be fare, to the other team and to themselfs so that both sides have a chance of winning, or losing, which is what balance is all about, when you bring in a gimmik you ruin all that because a team trying to be fare and have a good game that is balanced and fare, just gets rolled, that doesn't mean that there bad it just means that your exploiting over powered pile of poo, and you've no idea how to play the game past pressing, 1 & 2 keys.

As far as I am concerned if you want to go play gimmik, go do it in Barbie's playhouse or something, anything just get your whinning rear end out of GW, because you don't belong here.

Phoebe · Oct 06, 2006, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by supaet

1. Read your statement again, does not make any sense.
If you cannot find a group for 8v8 (8 slots per team) odds are better that you can for 6v6 (6 slots per team). What? logical?
Lower numbers easier competition? what? lower competition for smaller amount of "resouces"?
Like I said for every 24 players there are now 4 teams compared to 3.
That's still 24 slots.

The reason people cannot find team is not team size, it's rank discrimination. 6v6 will not change that.

You are completely ignoring the group politics and organization.
With less players to manage it's faster to organize the group.
And with less total players there's less likely to be friction between players. There's 28 '1on1' relationships in 8v8, versus only 15 in 6v6. Thus there will overall be about half as much opportunity for discrimination in 6v6 than in 8v8.

Yes, there's still going to be discrimination, but it's only going to be half as bad as it currently is, and with smaller teams people will waste less time waiting for the other teammates to join/be ready.

Quote:

Originally Posted by supaet

3. Again it does not make sense. Gimmick build happens because there are 16 extra skills? I didnt mean existing gimmick builds will work in 6v6. Also if you look at it, the "counter-gimmick" build has 16 less extra skill as well, so gimmic build will still exist.

Gimmic builds are caused by the 'Overwhelming offense' metagame in HA.
With 8 players that have nothing else to do than slaughtering the enemy team, teams can kill an enemy player very fast very easily with little options for the enemy team to protect itself. With so many options available to overwhelm a balanced defense, balanced builds just can't bring enough hard counters to counter all those offensive builds, and the flexible counters are alot harder to use than the offensive builds themselves.

Remove 2 players and it should become alot harder (or alot less easy) to spike(/overwhelm) an enemy, thus defense and counters should become alot more viable and gimmick builds should be less prevalent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by supaet

4. Since 6v6 does not fix any of the problems noted above, how is it different than the 8v8 hoh? it is safe to expect the 6v6 will share the same fate as the 8v8

Presumptuous statement. You do not KNOW what 6v6 does and doesn't. Wait till you actually have some experience about the subject before making any affirmations.

supaet · Oct 06, 2006, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

It maybe fun to you, but it isn't anywhere near fun for those that hate gimmiks, for those that play fare with some sort of balance to there build to be fare, to the other team and to themselfs so that both sides have a chance of winning, or losing, which is what balance is all about, when you bring in a gimmik you ruin all that because a team trying to be fare and have a good game that is balanced and fare, just gets rolled, that doesn't mean that there bad it just means that your exploiting over powered pile of poo, and you've no idea how to play the game past pressing, 1 & 2 keys.

As far as I am concerned if you want to go play gimmik, go do it in Barbie's playhouse or something, anything just get your whinning rear end out of GW, because you don't belong here.

I hope the "you" is not meant for me as an individual if you have read my entire post. What makes you think there will not be the same CRAP gimmick in 6v6? maybe not iway, but vimway, no spike but degen. So what? people who want to win will play gimmicks. I don't see anything wrong with builds like that. If you have to play their build in order to beat them, then that's your problem, or the problem with a certain broken skills, not the team size.

I got a new point. I find that the timing of this change being extremely bad. Anyone else feeling the same? With nightfall due out in 20 days, it will shake hoh when there are new skills and new classes. There will be counters for all the gimmick builds. Why not do one change at a time? now nightfall skills and new classes will never see the 8v8 hoh. Cant believe that the preview event was the last time the new classes and new skills used in 8v8. Don't you want to try a few builds in hoh 8v8? now you cant! thanks anet.

Don't get me wrong, I will enjoy 6v6, i will not quit or whatever. I will continue to run gimmick/anti gimmick builds in 6v6 and screw all of you noobs who thinks that you will see new life in hoh. If you don't like hoh now, you will not like it even it's 6v6. It's the skills and the structure of hoh that needs change. Not the team size. Changing the team size will not correct a single problem in hoh.

supaet · Oct 06, 2006, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoebe

Your are completely ignoring the group politics and organization.
With less players to manage it's faster to organize the group.
And with less total players there's less likely to be friction between players. 28 '1on1' relationships in 8v8, versus only 15 in 6v6. Thus there will overall be about half as much opportunity for discrimination in 6v6 than in 8v8.

Yes, there's still going to be discrimination, but it's only going to be half as bad as it currently is, and with smaller teams people will waste less time waiting for the other teammates to be ready.

Gimmic builds are caused by the 'Overwhelming offense' metagame in HA.
With 8 players that have nothing else to do than slaughtering the enemy team, teams can kill an enemy player very fast very easily with little options for the enemy team to protect itself. With so many options available to overwhelm a balanced defense, balanced builds just can't bring enough hard counters to counter all those offensive builds, and the flexible counters are alot harder to use than the offensive builds themselves.

Remove 2 players and it should become alot harder (or alot less easy) to spike(/overwhelm) an enemy, thus defense and counters should become alot more viable and gimmick builds should be less prevalent.

Presumptuous statement. You do not KNOW what 6v6 does and doesn't. Wait till you actually have some experience about the subject before making any affirmations.

1. Thanks for the explanation, much better than the previous poster's post.
I aggree with less conflict between players in smaller groups. But I have no clue why you say 6v6 has HALF the opportunity of rank discrimination. For any ranked group, someone unranked wants in, group saids no. It doesnt matter what size of the group does it? and 8 people group has an advantage because it needs more player. So if a r6+ looking for a last slot, but cant find a fellow r6, so lower req to r3. That happens more with the 8 man group than the 6 man group.

2. Gimmick build are cause by massive OFFENSE? um....was spirit spaming a gimick group? those spriits eat people? You lowered the offense with 6 people, you also lower the defense as well as SPECIFIC counters. For example, 8v8 favors spikes, so spikes are gimmick build in 8v8. 6v6 favors degens and slower pace game play. But again, gimmick builds does and will exist in 6v6, Just look at vimway during the 6v6 weekend.

As for the prediction for 6v6, it's a prediction. I still feel that they do not need to get rid of the 8v8 right now. Look at my last post, nightfall coming out in 20 days, it will bring new life in 8v8 hoh, now we do not have a chance to see that change. We have LOST the opportunity to use nightfall skills and classes in 8v8 hoh.

Inner Salbat · Oct 06, 2006, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by supaet

I hope the "you" is not meant for me as an individual if you have read my entire post. What makes you think there will not be the same CRAP gimmick in 6v6? maybe not iway, but vimway, no spike but degen. So what? people who want to win will play gimmicks. I don't see anything wrong with builds like that. If you have to play their build in order to beat them, then that's your problem, or the problem with a certain broken skills, not the team size.

That's the bigest load of horse crap I've ever read, I should not have have to roll a dice and hope that my gimmik will be unbeatable for however long it takes to get to the hall & or hold the hall, I should be worried about if I've brought along enough X and Y skills to be able with stand a suitable fight worth remembering.

If the skills are broken that's a fault of ArenaNet for not listening to the bloody alpha testers, and instead listening to a pack of Charr slaying PvE nubs.

Team size is broken if X amount of dmg output is greater than what any monk(s) can heal, or react too. as is the case with 8v8 HA the dmg output is way over powered on some builds, 1 second reaction time is hardly time to even cast before something is dead, on some builds.

supaet · Oct 06, 2006, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

That's the bigest load of horse crap I've ever read, I should not have have to roll a dice and hope that my gimmik will be unbeatable for however long it takes to get to the hall & or hold the hall, I should be worried about if I've brought along enough X and Y skills to be able with stand a suitable fight worth remembering.

If the skills are broken that's a fault of ArenaNet for not listening to the bloody alpha testers, and instead listening to a pack of Charr slaying PvE nubs.

Team size is broken if X amount of dmg output is greater than what any monk(s) can heal, or react too. as is the case with 8v8 HA the dmg output is way over powered on some builds, 1 second reaction time is hardly time to even cast before something is dead, on some builds.

OK, you win, 6v6 gvg next. 8v8 is broken.

pappayaponta · Oct 06, 2006, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Wohooo! :d

Phoebe · Oct 06, 2006, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by supaet

OK, you win, 6v6 gvg next. 8v8 is broken.

GvG is more complex that HA. In GvG teams commonly split, they usually have a flag runner, and you automatically rez from the relative safely of your base.